Detective Chimp's Profile

I mean, all of the Watchmen characters were just versions of the Charlton characters so saying they need to be respected seems a little ridiculous. Did Moore show respect for the characters he pretty much plagiarized? No, and to be clear I know he didn't "plagiarize" them but he did copy them for his characters. I think you're taking your hatred for Johns and making more out of this than there really is. Dr. Manhattan is just a copy of Captain Atom so he's not really his own character.

^ what? All of his points are valid, the watchmen characters are revered. Yes, they're just ripped from Charlton characters, but their motivations and history are extremely different, and that was the magic of Moore and the original story. Dr. Manhattan definitely is not a copy of Captain Atom, if you've read the original Watchmen comic and this story even. You seem to be just in love with this story to not accept any criticism of it from your response

also, looking at Darkseid's past reviews of this series, he gave them high scores. So your point of hatred for Johns makes no sense? I happen to agree with Darkseid here, this ending is immensely disappointing given the wait we had to endure and the hype that was built around this event

Thank you @ allenquanobi @Talon1load It's true, that I don't like Johns as a writer, but as you can see on my past reviews of Doomsday Clock, that didnt stop me from giving him high scores, if he deserved it. Watchmen are their own characters indeed. Similarities between Watchmen characters & the DC characters are part of the story in Watchmen. You didnt get Watchmen, if you think they are just a copy. By your logic Thanos would deserve no respect, since his character was inspired by Darkseid.

As a fan of Dr. Manhattan & of the Watchmen characters in general I am disappointed by DDC in the end. Johns didnt need the Watchmen characters for this plot, nor did it give, what it promised- another Crisis that would fix the DC timeline.

I actually didn't care for this issue but thanks for attacking me for my points. I mentioned Darkseids hatred of Johns because it's something we've discussed on here quite a bit. He gave them different characteristics but Moore really just warped preexisting characters to come up with his dark dystopian comic. You can get as heated as you like but my point still stands that faulting Johns for a doing what Moore did is ridiculous.

wait, that still doesn't address darkseid's review lol. Darkseid mentioned that he didn't enjoy what this issue/story did with the watchment characters, not what moore did in the original watchmen. he is faulting johns because what of what he did in this story, not what moore did in the other one

I'm aware. I was saying that to highlight that he's made a Johns for doing something that Moore essentially did in the first place. That's my opinion. If that doesn't work for you then that's ok.

@Talon1load If I was just hating on Johns I would have never given any Doomsday Clock issue 9 or 10 point, don't you think? Watchmen was a darker universe than the normal DC universe, but that doesnt mean Watchmen characters arent their own characters. It also doesnt mean writers can disrespect their Legacy just to praise their favorite character. Thats the very definition of bad writing.

Talon1load style to argue is ever triying to ridiculize everyone who disagrees with him. He uses lines as "seems a little ridiculous", "thanks for attacking me" (when no one is attacking him), "You can get as heated as you like" (when no one but him is heated), "whatever help you sleeps at night" (that one was for me in another thread). So Talon is just a dirty debater. His way is just disrespect and provocation with little punchlines as those. And he dosn't even realize is him whom provokes.

Reread through your entire rant and think about what you just said. You literally just proved my point about you.

What point? When we were talking you just throw a sarcastic comment looking to ridiculize me. If that's what you consider to make a point you just proved you are a dirty debater and you don't even realize.

No one actually promised a reboot or crisis coming out of Doomsday Clock. From the beginning, Johns a confrontation between the philosophies of Superman and Dr. Manhattan instead of a brawl between Justice League and Watchmen. You can judge how well it performed to that promise.

Doomsday Clock did back then when it was announced& the Button teased that change.

?

Zzzzzzz.

we all had, but just u donno ur already dead

I think the Watchmen trappings give it a feeling of weight, but most everyone who cares is really interested in the continuity/Superman stuff. It's a weird thing that won't age well at all.

Yeah this is a very good point; Watchmen is timeless. Doomsday Clock is really of one period in time and will definitely not age well.

This review is big fail

let's see how long it takes for Gotham Girl to disappear from DC Comics, never to be mentioned again.

Amen @myconius . Gotham Girl is just an homage to Tom King´s daughter "Claire". Yes, he just made his daughter a bad copy of Supergirl. Maybe a cameo the day of her birthday would be ok but made his daughter a leading charachter in Batman comic just because he can and want to is very disrespectful and unprofessional.

we are reading the same book. but those high scores must be high off the tom king kool aid.

They are reading his paychecks from DC.

Okay one more thing I just realized. Batman is holding that kryptonite rock in his gloved hands and GG touches with her gloved hands and gets her powers shouldn't that mean that Batman now would have powers?????

That means King is very careless and just as we talked after Batman #84 inconsistencies DC really need some people to review issues looking for flaws before printing.

i think Tom King only killed Alfred out of some desperate attempt to have a lasting effect on Batman comics in general. that bozo doesn't realize that Alfred has been killed before and will eventually come back. the only real lasting effect Tom King has had on Batman was making the single worst Batman run ever in existence.

Selina and Bruce didn't get married, in the end they decided they don't need to as what they have is more than it. Meanwhile, Tom King kept circle-jerking us about a wedding tease. Batman could find much better than her or actually reformed criminals, why he can't be in a relationship for long is because his life as Batman is sure to inflict a toll on any potential partner.

Because no one does care

Agree with myconius. Tom King thing is to kill and degrade characters, He just leave but saddly his mess remains.

Nihilist you'll have to excuse Tom King for all the unaddressed plot threads left hanging, and every detail he has overlooked. ...he was too busy patting himself on the back for being so clever, and eating a cucumber sandwich.

Of course. And he got this sandwich at Porky's, let's not forget that!

hahahaha! he was awarded a year supply of cucumber sandwiches when he signed up for the Fall Out Boy fan club. :D

so this is the second time DC has killed Alfred in the comics, right?

You mean in main continuity @myconius? Because I remember in main continuity he died long time ago in 60's smashed by a rock when saving the life of the Dynamic Duo and then soon returned as a very weird rogue named The Outsider. In Dark Knight Returns Alfred dies at the end. And recently he died in Injustice killed by Zaz for Superman order. And maybe there are another 1 or 2 times outside main continuity but right now I don't remember at all.

@Detective Chimp - yeah. in the main continuity. he sacrificed himself to save Brice & Dick, and was replaced by Aunt Harriet, then due to Alfred's popularity they just brought him back. i suspect somewhere down the road DC will be widdling Alfred being alive back into continuity, after they're done trying to capitalize on ALFRED R.I.P. ..not sure if i want to actually waste $4.99 on that.

King has always been cheap and lazy. i haven't really liked any of his run since the first issue. it's all been forced and contrived storytelling. he's just not a good writer.

DC really need fresh blood. Not only in writers but in the direction board.

Batman and Superman are some of my favorite characters in comics, but right now i'm just so emotionally uninvested in everything that DC has been doing. it's to the point where if they just stopped making single issue comics tomorrow i would care one bit.

*wouldn't care one bit.

@myconius I'm feeling as going for the same path. If they remove Bruce Wayne just as removed Alfred I won't care about BATMAN anymore.

Maybe DC just needs a scary drop in their sales to stop printing crap. They don't care for the readers anymore.

Great first sentence.

I don't believe Thomas and Selina had 'That" kind of relationship. It didn't feel or hint in that direction to me.

Like I said, I could be wrong. But really did get a vice of Thomas having sexual feelings for his Selina, but fighting to keep them down. Which would explain why Martha Joker shot Selina 2.0.

Above sentence should read "vibe" not vice.

The story of #84 is crystal clear. Thomas gets laid with flashpoint Selina giving him a new hope and sense for his life after the death of his son and his jokerized wife (killed by himself). He even stop killing the rogues but the Selina dies fighting crime on his side and the darkness backs to the hearth of Thomas and when he realize Bruce is repeating his own story he decides to step and "save" his boy. That's the story and I think is easy to understand. Now when comes to like or dislike this issue #84 is up to you. I liked it but I understand if others don't. I think King's Run overall is terrible but this issue was very interesting for me.

Except Thomas didn't get laid by Flashpoint Selina, they had a father/daughter relationship. Also, she wasn't killed, she was paralyzed in Flashpoint.

I don't think that's a father/daughter thing.

I think their relationship was very clearly NOT sexual.

You don´t need to see 2 people in bed to know they have something.

Ok man. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Oh thank you father.

You're welcome my son

King tried to get some manufactured feels from Alfred's death, but i felt nothing but apathy. this joke of a run is NOT the characters that i know and love. this run is an over-flooded toilet in a gas station bathroom.

don't you just love all these loose ends that King left hanging? i really think he had absolutely no clue what to do with Thomas since tossing him in at the end of issue #50. ...and everything's been so muddled and dragged out, that i don't even remember what King's reasonling for Booster Gold's sidekick Skeets being involved with Bane was.

What happened with Psycho Pirate? And yeah, Skeets too. So much was left behind and people will complain and say "but he didn't get to do the full run he wanted”. Too damn bad, if he was a writer worth a shit he could have wrapped it up in the 16 issues he had from the time he found out he was off until now.

pacing has been something Tom King has never understood. ....that nand how to tell a good story.

Love the detailed review! Even if I think this is a 2.0 at best.

Thanks Canada guy

Luna, you have a good point. Penguin in flashpoint world works for Thomas that's seems to be a big mistake in this story.

I thought so. Don't they have anyone at DC that does fact checks on stories? They seem to miss a lot of stuff anymore. Do you read Nightwing? In the Nightwing annual they said that Dicks parents were shot when they weren't. And how they died has been written about many times over the years so that is a huge mistake to make. They need some serious fact checkers at DC

@Luna I think they actually need some "serious people" in all comic industry.

True or for the ones working in to start to actually give a damn about the characters and not just the over all credit for having gotten one of their stories out

It doesn't really explain how he got there though. How did it still exist? Since when can Reverse Flash go to dead timelines? When Thomas disappeared in the Button it was going out of existence but suddenly he's not and instead of going to talk to his son he decides to destroy his life? This was just more nonsense.

I'm making the same questions as you egon.

What's to explain? When Barry fixed the flashpoint, that reality didn't disappear and just kept on living for some time. And when Thomas charged on the dissolving reality Eobard snatched him in that moment saving him. And then he got fixated on ensuring that his son is "happy" and leaves the Batman behind because it's pain, hurt and all that. This run is full of nonsense and questionable decisions, but this one seemed pretty clear.

I was under the impression that Flashpoint completely disappeared after everything was fixed. That was the whole point.

The whole point was yet another reboot of the universe.

True. I meant that once the timeline was fixed the Flashpoint timeline disappeared. That was the whole point for Thomas. To replace it with the proper timeline where Bruce survived

And he was pretty disappointed here when he realized that the "wrong" timeline wasn't erased.

I got that but there's no explanation as to why it wasn't erased

It just wasn't. I don't really need any more explanation than that.

I do. I like for things to make sense.

It's comic books, so the definition of "sense" is very, very wide. The most powerful weapon in the universe doesn't work against yellow, "punching" reality resurrects dead Robins and no one can tell that Clark Kent is Superman. Yeah, the definition of "sense" is very wide.

The rings have worked against yellow for over a decade now but there is always a suspension of disbelief. I still think an explanation is needed for the story. I get it that you don't but that's just how we differ I guess.

I know that they work now and I'm glad that you brought up the suspensions of disbelief. The flashpoint timeline wasn't erased because it wasn't. And people don't recognize Clark Kent as Superman with glasses because they don't. I know that we won't see eye to eye on the matter but it's always nice to have a civil conversation with someone on the internet. That stuff is rare. Especially now when people are triggered by everything. Literally everything.

Facts.

Agree. Is sad to think about how good this book should be (because is BATMAN!) and how bad actually is for a real lack of common sense from King.