Batman #66

He was a placeholder though. He served the exact same purpose as Constantine. He was an avatar in Batman’s mind going through his thoughts which makes no sense. When was the last time the Question and Batman ever interacted?

I honestly thought this was a lesser version of issue #50. And a way for King to say “my Batman can’t be happy, so suck it fools you’re stuck with this”. But other than the Question cameo, which I’ll acknowledge was well used, it did nothing to advance the story or provide any information at all that was not already known. In this sense it’s a waste.

I’d Trinity War was the last time he and Batman were involved in the same thing, but I’d take a gander and say pre-Flashpoint was their last interaction aside from that.

Exactly. So someone he’s had almost zero interaction with is who he pictures in his mind to solve this bullshit? It was just an attempt to gain favor with a guest appearance without actually using the character since it’s all in Batman’s mind.

Well, I don't know what the hell the continuity is at this point, but during Denny O'Neil's Question run, Question and Batman had a rapport. I could see that version of Batman using Question.

And I think this issue is saying the exact opposite of what you're saying about the whole Batman can't be happy thing, given the ending.

I acknowledge there were plenty of problems here, but I didn't find myself annoyed like with so many issues previously.

Yeah, I have no idea what is in continuity anymore either

You can interpret the remarks near the end stating he’s weak now to say that his “happiness” does not prevent his being Batman. But it’s worth noting that there’s much more going on with him at present (ie. Isolation from his friends and family, paranoia, doubt from his failure at Sanctuary and Gotham Girl). I could see the big payoff at the end of the run being Batman allowing himself to he happy, but until then we’re stuck with the “damaged” Batman that King basically set up in issue #50.

That story has already been told though. And it’s been done way better. There are no redeeming qualities about this entire run.

I hear you. While I disagree that you could apply, that statement to the entire run, to this arc there is no doubt it is abysmal.

*you could apply that statement to the entire run. Random comma inserted there lol

This arc has been mostly bad. I think most everything since 40 or so has been less than good. This issue and issue 51 are the only ones I've given what many would deem a "good" rating since about 40. And a 7 isn't what a high mark should be for a series.

Honestly, given about a day's reflection, I think my rating might be a bit high. But I'm not changing it because I think that'd be pointless. It is interesting to see the difference in reaction between this review and most of my others for Batman, though.

It’s ok, not awful enough that I hate it, but far away from great. It could be worse like when Gordon was Batman or Post Convergence was terrible

Gordon as Batman was ok. It was something different, didn’t actually change who Bruce was, and didn’t last years. I’d take that over Kings bullshit any day.

I didn't get that far in Snyder's run, I peaced out after Death of the Family.

I hated the Gordon thing lol Would have been more interesting, if we saw him fighting the villains and failing. This way it would have shown, that only Bruce is Batman.

Gordon required tech support, a mech suit, and the GCPD to do what Batman did on his own. It did a pretty good job of showing how difficult it is to replace Bruce.

I really have to disagree. It was awful in my opinion & I was happy when King took over back then.

Well we all make mistakes. Lol

Lol

the interactions between Selina and Bruce in Catwoman's pre-new52 run were always good.

Yes, but I still didn’t like them together. Like in Hush& Heart of Hush their relationship is pretty toxic with their back& forth. Not to mention, that Catwoman always is more like Batmans sidekick. I prefer both being single.

to each their own.

Agreed.

If there's even any grand finale. At this point I doubt his run will end on any note, let alone a high one. It's like Game of Thrones - after seeing how low the series went, I don't think its conclusion will be even remotely satisfactory.

It’s basically issue #50 all over again, but worse and less meaningful. Regarding GoT, show’s still great, fight me.

It is still great, although I'm glad it's coming to an end.

I concur with that, if it went on for too long it would lose its luster

I mean, cinematically it's outstanding, it's the biggest spectacle wou can watch on TV. Writing-wise, there is a noticeable drop of quality compared to earlier seasons, though, back when G.R.R. Martin was actively involved in its production. Plenty of changes compared to books, plot holes, changed arcs, simplifications and such.

he should really just give up on arcs and just finish the run with one-shots. it's not like the arcs actually amount to anything.

If he just stopped with the Catbat ship I would probably like it more. Hope he doesn’t ruin other characters

20 issues worth of reading? factor in all the decompression and you might have at least 5 or 6?

I mean first two arcs are solid, so they'd take about 12 issues alone. I Am Bane could probably be shorter, same with The War of Jokes and Riddles (this is easy to compress). Everything from this point could be either removed completely, or maybe some scenes could be salvaged somehow.

i just can't figure out how DC could expect 100 issues out of this guy.

Honestly the arc after #50, when he’s in court arguing against himsel was well done. But in the grand scheme of things there’s so much that’s forgettable that it just seems like he was in over his head. This “Knightmares” arc is just badly done filler. This issue was #50 2.0 pretty much, but done in a poorer fashion.

In court arguing against himself was a stupid concept to begin with. If he doubted Freeze was guilty then he should have been out looking for the real killer. Freeze has killed a lot of people, let’s not pretend that him getting beat wasn’t deserved.

those jury duty issues were horrendous. just a terrible concept through and through.

I preferred the Penguin story over the one with Freeze, since it was a really weird one.

i much preferred the story where Professor Milo sent the Werewolf after Batman. ....wait!!! that was Len Wein. ....nevermind. :P

Lol

Eh, I thought it was alright enough for a ridiculous concept, mind you the bar was not set high after he botched the ending of what would have been a very significant issue with #50

50 was ok for me, because the wedding didn’t happen. But what was stupid, that in 49 Joker& Catwoman were almost dying& then this got totally ignored in 50. I actually thought Joker would do something in 50 to ruin the wedding.And I still don’t get, why the two didn’t just marry as Selina Kyle& Bruce Wayne, I mean nobody knows he’s Batman, so it wouldn’t be a problem.

#50 was the straw that broke the camel's back to me. Prior to it, I wa somewhat defending King's writing. I can bet if I revisited his previous comics now, I'd dislike majority of them, since I have no excuses for him left.

The reason why so many people thought 50 was a trainwreck was because the wedding did not happen. In that sense you are an outlier, guy. And if you don’t get why he didn’t get married as Bruce Wayne it seems like you didn’t really read the issue, because it’s stated right there.

#50 was a drawn out, agonizing slog. reading it was worse then having teeth pulled.

@RBL I can’t remember any other reason than that it would be too dangerous or something stupid like that& maybe I am. I’m not a fan of Batcat. It doesn’t fit their characters at all, so I’m glad the wedding was canceled. However I wouldn’t be surprised if they are getting married at the end if Kings run.

@myconius I would rather say that about the Dick Grayson story, when King wrote it.

@ Darkseid24 yeah that Grayson series got to be pretty painful. i couldn't even give those comics away. nobody wanted them.

Lol Yeah& Batman 55 when he was shot was awful too,

It's not like the current Nightwing series is good either. The entire Ric Grayson shtick really doesn't oscilate well with readers. I just wish King finished this run already, so we can have some fresh blood coming in. It's all so painfully stagnant at this point.

Nightwing 50-56 was great, 57 was a let down. I don’t know about that. Could be worse than King.

I disagree. King is the absolute worst writer I’ve seen on Batman.

Ive seen worse.

Other than someone writing a shitty one shot, who was the last long term Batman writer that was worse than King?

Nightwing from 50 onwards has been irredeemable trash, and yeah you clearly did not understand why Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle could married. So much for reading.

*could get married.

i’m sorry but i really have to agree with Talon1load here. What other writer out there that had been writing Batman as long as Tom King has was worse? who?

Snyders Gordon story was worse. Parts of Grant Morrison story were worse. King has his flaws, but he at least gives many characters their chance to shine& doesn’t overpower Batman. Oh and Batman and Robin Eternal is worse, maybe even Batman Eternal. So was Tynions Detective Comics run. I was happy when it was finally over.

@RBL Nightwing 50-56 was one of the best stories since years. Still love it. And I know Batmans character& Catwoman’s character & that’s why I think it doesn’t make any sense for these two. Bruce isn’t Clark. As Dick once said: the only people Bruce really loved were his parents.

Thinking about it: Tynions Detective Comics was god awful. Clayface being in the Batfamily made zero sense. Or the terrible plot in Batman& Robin Eternal. The way Cassandra was portrayed& how it made NML not canon anymore, plus the dumb plan with Scarecrows fear gas at the end. King never wrote crap like that. Guess that’s why I always saw him above these stories, since his Batman run was better than this.

Wow, I’ve never seen so much wrong with one post. I wasn’t a big fan of Morrison’s run but he definitely added more to the mythos than King who hasn’t really added anything. That and it was much better written. People complain about Morrison’s ideas, not his writing. Snyder’s Gordon Batman was the same. Maybe not the best idea but way better executed than what we’ve gotten since. Tynion worked on the Bat family and redemption.

King hasn’t over powered Batman except when he fixed his own back while chained to a wall but he has done his best to make him the weakest and most ineffective he’s ever been. Batman and Batman and Robin Eternal has its low points but it was also trying to find a way to reintroduce characters who hadn’t existed in the New 52. Wasn’t great but still written better and represented Batman better than King. As I’ve stated before, Kong’s run has zero redeeming qualities in my eyes.

Darkseid24 hahahaha! Parts of Grant Morrison's story were worse than Tom King's??? 😂😂😂 ok man. i think this conversation is over. 😂😂😂 EGAAADS!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

😂😂😂😂 hahahahaha!!!! 😂😂😂😂 HOLY CRAP!!! 😂😂😂😂

Damn dude, you played yourself. Also Nightwing 50-56 is straight up garbage.

@Talon1load Better written yes, but stories like Rock of Ages is one of the worst stories ever written. I’d didn’t do Darkseid o thevNew Gods any justice. It was just a Batman fanboy story. Snyders Gordon story felt forced& not executed in a good way. I rather hav Bruce acting weird than someone taking over as Batman, who clearly doesn’t have the skills. Batrobot or not. It was awful. There was no need to change Cassandra’s or Azraels backstory at all. B&R Eternal made two of the best events

in comics history insignificant. Bane doesn’t even make sense anymore thanks to that story. Cassandra could have been reintroduced in a way better way. Not to mention the fear gas story made zero sense. Kings story are ok, but at least not downright awful.

@myconius Laughing isn’t an argument& don’t forget, that many fans love Kings Batman. That he is so awful is just only your opinion. @ RBL No Nightwing 50-56 is an awesome Story& you won’t convince me otherwise. King is also not nearly as bad as you make him sound.

Go be wrong elsewhere

@RBL Go be wrong elsewhere yourself.

i'm sorry. i couldn't help but laugh. that comparison was beyond ludicrous. Grant Morrison has done more to reinvent Batman and incorporate EVERY single decade of his existence and re-imagine all of the differnt eras in Batman's comic history as years in his life. not to mention how many reprints the run has made and continues to sell out. Tom King has done NOTHING but turrned Batman into a god damn joke. a BAD one. and now King is recycling his own garbage stories.

it's also pretty telling that you can STILL find plenty of 1st print copies of Tom King's Batman #1 readily available for cover price. it's worthless. no one wants it. look up the average going price for a copy of Batman 655. average buy it now are listed around $30 to $40 for ungraded. there are a few CGC copies selling for big bucks. it just goes to show that a lot of people highly value Grant's Batman to this day. as time goes by i'd bet that those copies of King's Batman end up in a $1 bin.

I just found Batman 655 for 3$ on eBay. And Kings Batman is the best selling DC title every month. And no it’s not just the name, because Detective Comics is also only Batman& it’s never number 1. Kings Batman run is also younger, so of course more of them are still available. As for Morrison no. Damien was an awful idea, even so the story was ok. But Rock of Ages was just garbage. Same goes for Final Crisis. Morrison even is bashing Alan Moore, even so Morrison will never reach his level of

of writing. Doug Moench, Chuck Dixon& Alan Grant they are the writers who wrote great Batman stories, but Morrison can’t reach any of them. And King is mediocre at best, but at least he never wrote awful stories like FC or Rock of Ages.

Or do you really call stories like The Return of Bruce Wayne great? That was awful too.

I’m not a Morrison fan at all but I liked his Justice League for the most part. Didn’t love it but I liked it. Kings Batman is the best selling regular series every month because that’s what Batman has been for a long time now regardless of the writer. Kings numbers are still tens of thousands lower than Snyder’s run. Your main complaint seems to center around how people use Darkseid. Let’s not act like King did a good job with the character. King is not a mediocre writer. He’s a terrible one.

@ Talon1load Haven’t read his entire JL run, but the stories I’ve mentioned are pretty bad. My complain is How Morrison used characters in general. FC contradicted everything New Gods related& also the way Batman was portrayed made zero sense. You guys might not care, because you aren’t a fan of the New Gods, but I’ve read every story with them since Kirby, so I do care a lot. And Kings Darkseid was dumb, but it was just a dream, while Morrison’s Darkseid was supposed to be canon, while it

contradicted everything about his character. As for the sales. Doesn’t change the fact, that Kings sells well. And many fans love him. Just go on Twitter and you’ll see. He’s mediocre because he hasn’t messed up characters that bad up until now.

up that bad

Darkseid24 this is the ONLY copy of Batman 655 on ebay currently for less then $10 and it is STILL in bid war. ...your credibility is really deteriorating at this point, my friend. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-655-DC-2006-1st-Damian-Wayne-NM/303084863571?hash=item4691440053:g:H3wAAOSwEwNcfWqh

All that being said, I’m not a huge fan of Damian. He’s been used well before but writers seem to continue to regress him to how he was when he first appeared. I HATED RIP. The weird alt personality thing, and a lot of other aspects but I was able to keep reading it. Kings run actually made me stop reading the title. It was that bad and painful to see what he was reducing such an iconic character to.

@myconius Not my fault when you can’t find it: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Batman-655-1940-1st-Cameo-Appearance-of-Damian-Wayne-VF-NM/382821115545?hash=item5921eaa699:g:Z2MAAOSwWTZceYks

And credibility? We are talking opinions& just because you disagree doesn’t make your opinion more valid @ myconius

@Talon1load It’s the other way around, I still can read King, but I try to avoid Morrison

i'm not talking credibility as in opinions of stories. i'm talking about credibility that you found one copy of 655 with a starting bid of $3 that still has several days of auction to go and try to make it sound as it that's a buy it now price. you're exaggerating and misleading.

And I just send you the link for the 3$ prize. You definitely can get it for lower money. That’s my point. Batman 189 is always on 100-250$ and still you can get it for 50$ if you are lucky in an auction. You made it sounds as I just made it up, therefore I’ve send you the link. However doesn’t make the story any better.

again i said "selling for" that's a bidding price. you are twisting facts to discredit my point. you always seem to do that i notice.

you did a similar thing when we were discussing Batman Shaman not too long ago.

Not really, we were talking about how high the prize can be& in an auction it can sell for 3$. However what has this to do with the quality of Morrison’s writing? And who is Shaman?

Shaman the storyline?

Just googled it& you didn’t have this conversation with me, since I haven’t read that story.

again you are making assumptions just to try to make your point. and NO. since last night there is another person bidding on #655 so it's no longer $3. and there are days left on the auction. so NO it WON'T sell for $3. ....and Shaman is the story where the pregnant girl got so scared of Batman she killed herself. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman:_Legends_of_the_Dark_Knight_Vol_1_1

I agree that Final Crisis was total shit. Morrison was the writer I just could not stand for a long time. Except for his Animal Man and Justice League. King has taken over though. The only thing of his I could half way stand was Sheriff of Babylon. The rest was all just depressing shit where he ruined characters.

Talon1load - i can definitely see people's grievances with Final Crisis. get through that entire story gave me a massive headache. i have a few friends that absolutely love that story, but i just don't find the same charm. ... i tried reading King's Sheriff of Babylon. issue #1 really didn't make much sense to me at all. i found it very decompressed, and loaded with senseless unmotivated violence. i couldn't even get through issue #2.

@myconius then we only discussed about the last part, since in the first part Batman did something completely else. And again what’s your point? I’ve even said the Damien arc was still ok, so you don’t have to prove Morrison’s talent with this story arc. I’m making nothing up. I said you can still get it cheaper than you claimed. Doesn’t matter at all if it’s auction or not. I really don’t see your point here.

And FC is definitely worse than whatever King wrote. He at least hasn’t contradicted 20 years of comic history. Only Darkseid War is worse than FC, but with Doomsday Clock I can’t say Johns is a bad writer in general, but he should stay away from the villains/ New Gods.

my point is you're continually trying to spin facts to suit your own narrative. you always do this.

King has contradicted almost 75 years of history with his mischaracteeization of Batman. That’s way worse than FC. Which was still shit. Just not as much shit.

It is it 80 years. Either way, a long ass time.

*or is it. Stupid phone keypad.

@myconius I never did something like that. Claiming I did is also no argument. Let’s just agree to disagree about King& Morrison. I’m fine with you preferring Morrison over him, but I do not.

@Talon1load King portays Batman a little whiney, but his stories also have classic elements like it’s focusing on Batman fighting his villains like old stories do. My main problem is his bad dialogue. FC is worse to me, since King didn’t change Batmans power level, but FC got the Anti life equation totally wrong. And that’s only one element. Maybe I’ll hate King in future stories. Depends on what he will write.

When does he actually fight them though? He just gets his ass beat until the last second where he miraculously defeats them. Hell, some of the actual fights aren’t even on panel. You’re just told they happened. He didn’t over power Batman but he definitely overpowered Catwoman. We are probably just not going to agree which of the two writers sucks more but it’s King. lol

i'm sorry but you did. i was trying to make a point that TK's first issue of his run is readily available for cover price cuz no one wants it. yet Morrison's first issue of his Batman run usually sells between $20 to $30 or even $40 because it's still high in demand. you said you found it selling for $3 as if it was a buy it now price. i found that statement to be very misleading since it was an auction that's currently up for bid. you may not want to admit it but you were being very misleading.

@myconius Sorry but I really didnt mean it that way. I only wanted to point out, that if you are lucky you can also get it for 3$ as well. When I’m looking for stuff on eBay I don’t really differ between auction and immediate purchase.

@Talon1load Yes Catwoman was overpowered indeed with that I agree. But Batman fought Bane, beat up KGBeast ( even so I hated that story)& also fought in Riddles& Jokes. And yes I did say that. It’s one of Kings many flaws, that he often doesn’t show us the real interesting parts of the story. Batman also beat up Mr Freeze& wasn’t that hurt when facing Ivy. It’s just lately that he’s whining, since the wedding, which I don’t like. But I can take that over contradicting everything New Gods related

as Morrison did. For me it’s Morrison. If King messes up in the future I might change my mind. And King gives also D villains their screentime

Jokes and Riddles was gutter trash. That bullshit is when I quit. He beat Bane after miraculously fixing his own back (that’s over powered bullshit), most of jokes and Riddles was just him narrating. He showed one big fight and it was his darkest secret? That was beyond stupid. He also got Kitemans kid killed. He did fight KG Beast but then left him for dead after doing nothing but grunting the entire issue. The entire Freeze arc was stupid and made no sense. And wasn’t he killed during the

Ivy arc? So much nonsense. I get that you love the New Gods but we’re talking about how much he sucks at writing Batman here. Between him and Morrison, King is the inferior Batman writer by a long shot. WAY LONG.

Good these stories were bad no doubt, but King hasn’t messed up any of my favorite characters yet. That’s why I still prefer him over Morrison up until now. King sure messed up Batman, but not on Morrison’s Level as he did with the New Gods. Morrison overpowered Batman& I don’t think that’s better. And stories like The Return of Bruce Wayne or FC also Batmans part was just awful.

were

The Penguin story was ok& he’s one of my favorites

Return of Bruce Wayne was pretty bad. I’ll give you that one.

Not King bad but bad. Lol

Maybe we should just agree upon that there are way better writers than these two& both wrote stories, that sucked lol

i can safely say that Bendis and King are my two least favorite comic writers. Morrison has written quite a few stories i didn't like, but he's at least written some of my favorite stories. i still don't know why DC was so hot dog to recruit Bendis. he's done nothing to impress me since he came on board.

Tony Daniel is a very talented artist, but his writing is extremely hit or miss. his new52 Detective run was pretty awful. it even make John Layman's mediocre run right after seem like a breath of fresh air.

one of the biggest pieces of proof that DC editorial isn't worth a damn was Batman Odyssey. ...if you've never read it, DON'T!! ... it'll make you want to stab yourself in the head with the blunt end of a spoon.

Tony Daniel also wrote Battle for the Cowl and that storyline was amazing. Morrison’s Batman and Robin that followed was also a stellar run. King is basically becoming what bendis was at Marvel, they hand him big name titles based solely on his name and disregard if he’s suitable to write the character/characters. bendis himself has not changed and is far past his prime, hence why the Superman titles are not worth picking up right now.

i really enjoyed the heck out of Battle for the Cowl, and yeah Grant's Batman & Robin was probably one of the single more BEST runs withing the last two decades. i see kind of see King and Bendis as one in the same at this point. neither of them have ever wrote anything that i really enjoyed, and both of them are dumping all over DC's two biggest characters. i don't even so much as glance at Bendis's Superman. that comic is poison.

@myconius- You are right. Bendis is the worst thing that ever happened to Superman. And as much as I love Neal Adams, Odyssey was just awful. This is one of the single worst comic book panels I have read: http://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2012/10/odyssey-suspicion.jpg

His Ultimate Spider-Man was amazing though.

@Talon1load- Never read it. I did really love his Daredevil with Alex Maleev.

Oh man, you should. It was the most fun Spider-Man has been in a really long time.

Cool! I'll have to check it out.

It’s a good read, just don’t read Spider-Men afterwards. That “event”, by bendis, undoes a lot of the work he himself did.

Yeah, it wasn’t nearly as good

@ohhaimark - OH MY GOD!! 😂 hahahaha! 😂 how did i not notice that panel before??!!! that's absolutely awful!!!! 😂 now i'll need to find a nice blunt spoon to stab myself with! 😂

I don’t get the panel 🧐

Darkseid24 - that panel Neal drew he had Alfred making a very lurid hand gesture.

I see it now lol I concentrated on the dialogue 😂

i just wish there were a way for us to be able to UN-see it!! 😂😂😂😂

Lol And Solicitations for the upcoming Batman titles don’t sound so good with Thomas I mean. I don’t think we need another crazy version of Batman in Gotham. Hope he dies pretty soon.

Honestly the crossover would have been better served made an official tie-in to HiC because it adds some depth to an event that has had none. This issue, yeah, just a re-telling of things already known and no progression made. They expected The Question’s cameo to warrant purchasing this pretty much.

my feelings on this current arc aside, the decision to jarringly interrupt it with a crossover was just such a terrible idea. but yeah this entire series is becoming rehash and filler.