Batman: Black & White #3

I wish they’d expand that story into more

I actually liked this one the most. I really like all of these artists. Last issue, I only really liked the David Aja one.

Do you understand the Marvel versions?

Okay, I apologize. Your reviews seem to pretty fair as of late. I just have PTSD over your era of DC lucky to have an average of 3 or 4. ;)

Beating on white supremacists is racist? I feel like ur gonna have a tough time fighting for that one chief. Also, the story mostly focuses on family anyway, so I really have no idea what you mean, sir.

Ridleys schtick is pretty much back revenge fantasies. If you canr see the racist complexion of his one note writing you have my sympathy. As for batman black white I've been enjoying it more than the main books. With a few duds it's mostly enjoyable.when I saw Ridley was contributing to this issue I knew what I'd be getting and simply chose to put it in the dud of this issue category. Always enjoy Kelley Jones on batman though.

omg, why do you think racism is owned only by people with African genes? Racism can be suffered by anyone and when you hit a target just because of their ethnicity, it is racism.

Uhhh sure, I know that. Everyone does. But advocating for any kind of supremacy is wrong, and this is no exception. Taking down ppl like that shouldn't be controversial.

Once this is cleared up I'm not sure if the first story is racist or not, but it could be interpreted as promoting revenge towards a bigoted (dumb) type of people and I think it fuels the fire of hatred and I don't believe that. It is what you need right now with the situation that is happening in the United States, a terrible situation that should never have happened. Think about this, if we translated it backwards, a white Batman beating up a group of bigoted blacks, it wouldn't be racist.

That's exactly the point. Any portrayal of one race being above another is wrong. But not where Ridleys writing is concerned. He love provoking racial tensions with his revenge fantasies. Hes a lazy writer and very one note.

I'm not really sure how "taking down white supremacists" is provoking racial tensions, considering people like this do exist. While they may not be extremely abundant, the events at the Capitol building (where actual confederate and white power flags were flown) should tell you otherwise. And these people aren't portrayed as "dumb" (one is even mentioned as military) just ignorant, which again, is not unbelievable given the current climate.

Finally, we have been shown scenes of Batman beating on minorities in gangs and so forth, which generally garner little to no attention. (I'm thinking of certain scenes from 80s Batman comics) So I'm not entirely sure to take away from this conversation other than you likely skimmed through the story, saw a mention of race and got upset, and then proceeded to make excuses about it.

By your logic it's okay when: Batman (Bruce Wayne) beats up black drug dealers like Deshawn (Batman #664) and Jefferson Skeevers (Batman #407) But it's "provoking racial tensions" when: Batman (Jace Fox) beats up white supremacist drugs dealers like the Igloo Bois in this issue. If that's what you're saying I'm sorry, but I think you're racist.

TheHyruleElf terrible thing about the capitol, personally I do not see badly the first chapter, but there are extremely sensitive people and others being so extreme in another and I think that due to the situation that is unfortunately happening, perhaps they should be careful regarding these issues During a demonstration against racism, many people became aggressive with the motorists and caused deaths and injuries for taking things to the extreme,

it was not like the madmen in the capitol, a little care should be taken not to fall into extremes.

TheHyruleElf At the moment I do not think that anyone dares to put a group of blacks being beaten and it would feed hatred in a difficult moment.

In the end it is my way of thinking of a person who sees their whole situation from the outside and I see how in both groups people shout offenses or say racism, xenophobia etc. It is not the same today as at the time those comics were written and if there was some racism at that time in many movies when the bad guys were Russians or black people. Now they are replaced by Russians or Mexicans and it is still Xenophobia and racism but now directed at another group.

If we get so strict on sensitivities, there will always be racism and xenophobia in some way.

Lol...the Capitol building? We saw blm and antifa destroy lives and livelihoods for months in the name of back lives matter and you're giving me a few hours of hyped up kooks in DC as the problem? I said Ridley is lazy and one he ran straight to beating on white supremacists by his fake black batman. All to stoke division and feed racial animus.

And lo and behold you call me a racist...lol

Ridley is the racist. You need to digest that fact. All he offers is hate. I've seen batman beat up Russians Asians black criminals Latin criminals and a whole lot of white ones too.

His entire rogues gallery is white.

@TheHyruleElf: For me it's pretty simple: if the situation was reversed (aka portraying black people like whites are portrayed here), this would be considered controversial. But since these are white people, that's ok. You can't have it both ways, I'm sorry.

Minus bane who is Latin.

And killer croc is black. Batman goes where the crime is. No race baiting like Ridleys one note writing.

And if you want to quibble ras al ghul is likely middle eastern. Now there was a period during the war that batman was used as propaganda. But he began as simply a crime fighter against almost exclusively white criminals. Ridley runs straight to the racial animus well as he always does.

And to be clear I'm saying Ridleys writung is lazy one note and tailored to stoke racial animus. He ran straight to the black hero vs white supremacists well. A hero that by the way never earned the batman title and left batman's three sons out of contention. My problem isn't seeing white supremacists being beat up. It's the obvious agenda and race baiting of Ridleys.

"you're giving me a few hours of hyped up kooks in DC as the problem?" I'm not going to get into that because I'm sure you know the difference between damage on insured building vs. attacking public officials in the nation's capitol over an election. If you can't see the difference, there's no helping quite frankly. And I'm still unclear on why you take such issue with the notion of white supremacists being villains, I really don't understand that. Or how that "stokes any racial animus."

White supremacists are bad in any context and your justifications are not helping in the slightest. It almost sounds like you're trying to defend them, but please prove me wrong.

And @Merlyn the point I'm making isn't a black vs. white supremacists thing, but rather Batman's approach to crime. In this story, Batman is taking them out because they kidnapped a cop and are gun traffickers. But somehow it's the fact that they're "white supremacists" that makes you angry. Again, I'm not really sure why that would be the case. I assume YOU are not a white supremacist, and I don't recall Jace Fox saying any diatribe about "all whites being racist" or some other nonsense.

@Merlyn I believe I mentioned earlier that the story mostly focused on the family (Jace and Tiff) and their relation to Batman, but it seems that you were somehow most upset over them being racist. Again, they're criminals so I'm not sure why that would take precedence, but I'll let you explain yourself. Or not. If you thought the story was boring or uninteresting, that's quite all right. But this weird fixation on a minor point seems odd to be upset about.

@Merlyn Again, I assume your not a white nationalist, so for the life of me I don't understand why that would rankle you so much.

Were you as upset when abortion activists stormed the capital and threatened any senator that dared to confirm Cavanaugh? Spare me the piety.

@TheHyruleElf: Stop lying, please. There were not just "damages on insured buildings", there were a lot of deaths and injured people. In fact there was a lot more loss of life in the BLM riots than on the Capitol storming. On 6 January 5 people died, in the BLM riots, the counting stopped at 19 deaths, for obvious reasons. Those so-called "peaceful protests" were anything but, the real number of dead people is probably much higher.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to defend the rioters at the Capitol, there is no excuse for those actions, whenever there is loss of life that's when it's going too far in my book. But comparing the two events like one was something horrible and the other was just a walk in the park is very disingenous on your part. So, you know, before you start throwing insults at me because I don't agree with your racial theories, maybe stop lying for a second.

You're not paying attention are you? Ridley uses the straw man to gin up racial animus. Its easy to loathe white supremacists and it's easy to use them for his purposes. And what's his purpose? Good story telling? No..racial tension is what hes looking to foment.

And regarding the racism thing, again, I don't have a problem whatsoever shaming white people being racist, but why is it ALWAYS the whites being portrayed as such, but never, ever the other way around? Why is one thing super cool and acceptable, while the other is so problematic that no one dares portraying black people like that? That's racist, and you know it.

Oh and there's the feeble excuse "insured buildung" regurgitated like a good little useful idiot. It doesn't matter how much damage blm and antifa inflict on property and people's lives..its insured. Dozens were killed during BLM's jacobin free for all. That's ok..insured.

Ok first of all, I wasn't "throwing insults" I was just asking why you seem to fixate on such a minor point, assuming you're not a white nationalist. If you're upset by the comparison, that's fine, but it's hardly lying. And yes, ppl were killed. Police and protestors (some who were shot by civilians like the Rittenhouse boy) but again I raised the point of the capitol riots as clear cut example of current day white extremism when felix had raised another point.

Were you upset when public officials were threatened in the Capitol by lefty activists during the confirmation hearings?

Oh wait...they were unsured?

And I'm not sure what "racial theories," you think I support, or even what that means if I'm being honest, but I know that I wouldn't be upset by a minor point of white supremacists in an 8 page Batman comic. No, it's not a walk in the part, but there is certainly a greater emphasis on the Capitol considering what might have happened if the terrorists had been successful.

Rittenhouse was defending himself from armed antifa that chased him down. Do your own eyes lie to you?

I'm not saying the lives lost last summer are insignificant, but it's certainly a little more frightening when the entire government is at risk over a democratic election. That's really all I have to say, as well as my points about the actual comic we've been discussing. Also, we're about 30 comments deep and I'm not a "keyboard warrior," so I'll not be debating this well into the morning if you understand my meaning.

And I've given you examples of black extremism but you don't seem to care about it very much, if anything you're trying to suggest the deaths came from right-wing extremists. Your bias is showing.

One more point: the "peaceful protests" that you mock were often instigated by police and I should know. I watched a 7-hour Livestream of my local Boston news channel and while the marches were peaceful for nearly 3/4 of that time it was when the police showed up that things really escalated through the use of tear gas and other tools. Obviously, that doesn't excuse rioters, nor the actions of murder, but when a body escalates things it always gets worse. Always. That's my take.

John Sullivan antifa and blm operative raided the capitol on Jan 6 and even filmed Ashli Babbitt mortally wounded. Hes on video gleefully enjoying his presence in the capitol and the damage being done. Good luck portraying him as a white nationalist.

Well your take is pretty bad given that the mob attacked the police, the same mob who called for the abolition of police and prisons.

"Rittenhouse was defending himself from armed antifa that chased him down. Do your own eyes lie to you?" And this justifies murder? I presume you felt the same outrage over the many hate crimes committed towards Asians in the past year.

The government was never at risk. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence.

"And I've given you examples of black extremism but you don't seem to care about it very much, if anything you're trying to suggest the deaths came from right-wing extremists." - "But advocating for any kind of supremacy is wrong, and this is no exception." My own words. And yes, some of the deaths did come from extremists as I mentioned. As well as Antifa antagonizers. I don't advocate for any violence, but there shouldn't be a case for "which supremacy is better."

Also, a lot of Antifa antagonizers (which you mention as causing trouble) are white, yet you refer to it as "black extremism" which I find to be very questionable. And I don't recall them arguing for "racial purity" or any such nonsense. That doesn't make it better, but they're hardly a 1:1 comparison. Once more, if you cannot see some distinction I'm afraid I don't know what else to say.

Yeah..its ok it's all insured (sorry about the dozens killed and wounded)...but the government and free elections were in danger and ours white nationalism fault..lol

"The government was never at risk. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence." Well that says quite a lot. It's not as though they had to evacuate all the members congress as they were performing their duties. It's not as they some of them were carrying weaponry and bombs. But I suppose, I'm embarrassing myself for worrying about a little thing like safety.

Well I guess I am, as I'm continuing this conversation with you Ming.

Dude, if you're going to pin those deaths on "Antifa antagonizers", it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously. Seriously. And yes, you're right, there shouldn't be a case for "which supremacy is better", that was my whole point. But why is it everyone's cool with the depiction of white people like this, yet the opposite is racist? Why is it okay to portrait one race in bad taste, but at another it's "problematic"? That's my whole complaint.

I think I've read tens of comics recently of white people being portrayed this way, but always JUST white people. You can't tell me with a serious face that it's just coincidence and not pure racism.

Terrorists were successful..lol listen to yourself. Months and months if blm and antifa terrorism on entire cities and you brush it off with..its ok its insured but the government was in mortal peril. By who? A guy in a medicine man headdress and facepaint?

"Dude, if you're going to pin those deaths on "Antifa antagonizers", it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously." Oh, right, I guess I was supposed to those evil nasty radical black monkeys who ruined the cities and killed people, right? And my complaint from the start was why would you be upset over a portrayal of supremacists in a bad light. Let me ask you this: If they were Japanese extremists, would you be just as upset as you are right now?

The fact that you've defended this for this long leads me to believe otherwise, but please prove me wrong.

Instead of wanting to call me a racist so bad why don't you read what's in front of you? I already said no one cares that white supremacists got beat up in the story. Its Ridleys cleae and transparent agenda that is vulgar and offensive.

Don't pretend to be clever with me champ. My family experienced first hand the butchery of the nazis and the communists.

And I continued to ask what agenda is a part of fighting against supremacists, and how it could possibly be "vulgar and offensive." Like, supremacy is bad in any form so I don't understand how it's an agenda. Is it just because they're white and Batman is black? Really? That's a weak justification and I hope you understand that.

But I get the feeling you've made up your mind already, and the fact that you consider Rittenhouse so defensive hero shows I want little to do with that ideology.

Billions of dollars in damage. Lives destroyed. Dozens killed. Hundreds injured in blm and antifa riots that took place over months but the guy in the horned headdress and face paint nearly brought down the government..lol.

So this will be my last little comment, unless you have something else witty to say Ming.

You haven't answered whether you were upset when lefties stormed the capital and threatened senators if they confirmed kacanaugh

I ll spell it out for you. Beating up skinheads is not Ridleys agenda. Gunning up racial animus is. He merely used the boogie man dupes like you react to.

Of course I was, who wouldn't be. As I've said a million times, any extremism is bad, left or right. But that doesn't somehow justify the events of Jan. 6 does it? Again, if you need to justify the actions of one group by saying, "well, the other group does it too!" then not only are you missing the point, but it's frankly disturbing.

So if you can't understand that, let's not continue this charade any further.

I think I've made my point clear 4 times now and you completely choose to ignore my point of view while trying to imply that I'm racist (I didn't use the word "monkey" at any point, but you've done it). Given that you don't seem to give a crap about any of my comments and just cherry-pick parts of them in order to try to portray me as you want me to be, I don't see why I should continue this conversation.

No justification for either attack on the capital but you seem to call only one group terrorists for doing exactly what another had already done with almost no consequences.

Again spare me your piety..you're not very convincing.

No one justifies the attack on jan 6 stop putting words in my mouth. Its was dangerous and unlawful.

What's more troubling is your defense of the terrorism on entire cities by blm and antifa. You actually repeated the "its insured"absurdity mouthed by blm mouthpieces. That speaks volumes about how easily manipulated the dim witted can be.

Anyway... batman black and white is currently the best of DCs batman output right even with duds like this one by Ridley.

Merlyn..apologies for belaboring this board but he calls everyone a racist almost by reflex.

There's a quote that applies to what Ridley does..the devil doesn't appear to you in horns and a cape but rather as everything you wish for. There's a better version of that but I think it's clear.

There was nothing racist about beating up racists who killed a cop. Nothing

There is something racist when your black batman is doing the beating up of said racists. Ridley is a race baiter and he used the easiest go to to disguise his racial agenda...white supremacists. Do you think Ridley would have his black batman beat up some antifa or blm goons burning down someone's home or destroying their livelihood? I've seen Bruce Wayne come to the aid of people like that.

Like I said the devil doesn't appear in horns and a cape...he appears as everything that appeals to you.

Look at Ridleys body of work and tell me he doesn't have a racial agenda. Good luck.

You're looking for something to get upset about. All I see is Batman fighting criminals. Them being racists doesn't change that. And it isnt racist either. He isnt beating them because they are white, hes beating them up because they are criminals.

That isnt a racial agenda, that's Batmans doing exactly what he's supposed to do.

Of course hes beating them because they're white. It's a revenge fantasy for Ridley who is himself a racially charged writer.

When Ridleys batman takes on the crips (which is also what batman is supposed to do) let me know.

You're being duped and manipulated by Ridley. He didn't have to put his batman in peril by white supremacists. They could have been drug cartel or gang members in which killing a cop is much more frequent and realistic. He went straight to the racist well instead.

No he isnt beating them because they are white lol. Did you even read this? Its clearly explained they have kidnapped/killed a cop and thats why he's there. You talk about seeing the "devil" in front of you but you are choosing to deny the reality the book presents and formulate your own. I've read other works by John ridley and one of those was other history #1. In which a black man develops a prejudice against another black man.

Clearly he is capable of more nuance than he is allowed. And a writer depicting batman beating on crips WOULDNT be racist either. You sound like the folks who said Hawkeye was racist in Endgame, I've defended that scene too.

I'm not so sensitive to be offended by Hawkeye kicking yakuza ass in Japan. But Ridley has a racial bent to his writing and its not simply plot device and storytelling. I believe hes a race baiter.

Ridley didn't have to go to racist well but he did and its not coincidence.

This piece is a revenge fantasy by Ridley. I believe it's obvious given context with his other work. Its time for guys like Ridley to be called to the mat. On a purely aesthetic note his writing bores me. Hes one note and lazy. Similar to Tom King.

Writing black characters isn't a racial bend though. And depicting real life racism isn't a racial bend either. There's no revenge to he had for this to be something like that.

Revenge for what? He's fighting criminals. There is ZERO wrong with that. Just because they are criminals similar to ones we'd encounter on occasion in modern times doesn't change that.. . I dont see the disconnect, it seems to he a personal issue with Ridley going back to something specific. But there's no need to fit it in here.

If he wants to write racism being defeated, let him! Its exactly the type of relevant story that resonates and there's nothing wrong with that. I dont see an issue.

@Ming: Let it go, it's not like you're going to change his mind, he clearly doesn't care to see beyond the usual stereotypes. And I really don't want this to go to 100 comments. :))

@Merlyn, its not a stereotype. That implies most white people are depicted like this. They are not. But if you wish to end the discussion, very well.

If you would've even read the comments I've made above you would know what my complaint was. But you didn't so yeah, there's no need for further discussion.

@Merlyn, I believe we see John Ridley writing about are criminals that he imagines most. Bob Kahan and Milton Finger's core (not exclusive) vision of "the criminal" were mobsters of their day. because that was threat in their city. They were, of course, a stereotype too. But with more pages of writing, antagonist (even mobster) had more character development. Not getting those pages from Ridley. Thus less character development. Lack of writing/plot limits what we see beyond snippet of world view

@Merlyn, I have read John Ridley's Batman work only. To me, the question is can he really do anatagonist character development, as I also question can he really write a solid story with beginning, middle, end - beyond the serial style writing or reimagining others' "history"?

5 fine examples of what happens when you try to write a comic story while high? At least that's the best explanation I can come up with.

Already there’s a rumor one of these stories will be a series it was so successful !

I doubt I'll be reading it. DC's very hung up on this Future State stuff, but I passed on the whole thing. I've never been a fan of futuristic comic scenarios.

Agree in general on that, and the one story I hope they will expand upon was Batman as a ghost but I doubt that’s the one

Why do you even read comics? If tastes are diverse then allow for it.What DC intended was to entertain with something bold fresh and different, and they did. Who they disappoint are readers who aren’t. I give you a 1.0 too

Exactly, I did not like it, however who does it is good because they make the purchase and avoid the disappearance of DCcomics, however for my taste I feel that the quality of DC has been declining for a year in a terrible way.

In the end, the purchase is what counts, not what we think, it is a business so the numbers will really speak for the fans, you like to buy it, you don't like to put it aside. It is that simple to show what art, character or number we support.

And I think I'm not trying to stop anyone from buying it, I'm not getting into other people's reviews like a bitter blaze just because they like me, that's allowing, respecting and having tolerance for diversity. And I give a -100 to the intolerant who do not support the diversity of opinion due to their lack of maturity. Diversity is good.

I’m just giving you some ‘diversity of opinion’ Seems you didn’t like that with the novel you wrote in response. Don’t care about the rest of DCs line or whatever, so just talk about the book. It was great and you can’t see it. Cool.

Which is great and I fully support your opinion of diversity, my native language is not English, maybe something can be misinterpreted. But of course I support diversity and intolerant people who want to control a positive or negative vote make me sick. If you like that is good and if you don't like it too.

J'me demande la même chose, ils sont traumatisés si quelqu'un dit que je n'aime pas ça, ils ont besoin comme si tu devais changer d'avis et face à l'agression, personne n'écoute ne peut avoir des bases solides ou pas, ils faire et infraction, couper la communication que pourrait-il y avoir C'est comme je demande explication par un 10

Consultez vos messages privés, pour convenir des traductions je vous laisse toutes mes données.

Je crois aussi que nos attentes ont augmenté depuis la création de Batman en 1939. Je crois que Batman a été une réponse émotionnelle au fléau du crime, qui a toujours semblé être hors de portée de la loi, et des victimes innocentes. C’est ce noyau qui a été le plus perdu.

Le Batman a été une réaction pour inspirer ceux qui se sentent persécutés par les temps sans loi, et le manque de protection contre la société partagée. C’est le cœur de l’histoire, y compris les super-vilains. C’étaient des méchants qui attaquaient les vulnérables, pas seulement une guerre privée avec des héros. Pas l’invasion extraterrestre de l’espace, pas Darkseid, pas de réalités multiples.

You write reviews like a master dog S$@t chef.